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Beast Walkers are ludicrous and other balance observations

Shotagonist

New member
Just breezed through the game with 2x Beast Walkers and 1x Chieftain (Could have been 3x Beast Walkers and it would work just as well)

Basically, they always go first and Critical Claw (especially the upgraded ones) can hit for 50 to over a 100 damage in a single attack, and since I did nothing but boost cunning, I always went first, I tended to get 4 attacks with those in before my opponent could even move. Needless to say, I tended not to lose fights to put it mildly.

On that note, I picked up lust down the line while I played and I noticed it feels much weaker than War. War gets 25% boost on its abilities (and honestly, why would you want to pick up Kind abilities?) and Lust only gets 20% bonus to 2 specific elements and only when the opponent is attracted. I dunno, it feels wrong that War gets the better bonus for a more broadly useful passive. As an aside, I think its very weird for an ability to work based on something in the customize tab.

My suggestion is to nerf Swift Judgement (100% unconditional extra turn at the start of the fight is just too good. Its way better than any other passive). Also, there either needs to be a cap to how much damage one can stack, or a change to religion HP (as an aside, the extra turn is bugged - you can keep wailing on a broken character with Swift Judgement, likewise, if a character with Swift Judgement gets broken by the Weaver passive, they still get to use a move).
There should also be a different system in place with Lust. Yes I get the attraction thing, but the customization aspect means people will try to abuse it by changing gender before the battle (and while this apparently doesn't work, the game doesn't tell you), so maybe use a more neutral signifier that is static for this?
Finally, War could use with a different downside, or maybe just reduced boon. Its too easy to just steamroll everything with violent moves.
 

RickSo

Abbey Games Developer
Developer
Abbey Games Developer
Thanks for this Shotagonist!
This is exactly the stuff we'll need going forward. All of this is going on the big pile of balancing considerations! :)
 

Shotagonist

New member
Yeah, basically my strategies so far involve alpha striking with hyper focused offense builds and any class that can gain first-turn moves (such as chieftain, beast walker and Weaver). My Religion HP was very low compared to the enemies I encountered, so I figured offense was the best strategy. It didn't really matter if my Disciples had 60+ Spirit because I only had 55 Religion HP, so the fight would be well over before they hit 0. But that's not really a balance concern (I guess a defensive strategy could work, I didn't test it yet), but from a pure perception perspective.
 

Blackvision

Active member
Kickstarter Backer Community Member for 2 years
in my experience, defence strategies *can* work, but rely heavily on your disciples actually picking mostly healing abilities, otherwise you're in for a rough ride. You can get round that with Ascetics as they have one by default (and a good one!) but that's not enough on its own, and purely defencive classes can't hold up on their own.

There are mixed defencive ones that work well, but yeah, the difference in max religion HP is a serious flaw in that approach - even when you can easily out-do their damage, you have to *also* lower their HP by at least as much again as your own.
 

dragonfang12321

New member
I think a large part of the balancing issues right now is the idea of the religion HP in general. As it stands, going first give a HUGE first player advantage because reducing your opponent to 0 region HP ends the fight. So you take less hits. Bonus to offensive. Going defensive makes it hard to win because you have to out damage you opponent to win + whatever extra HP they get for just existing. Bonus to offensive. Same with strong healing, even if you win with 100% HP you also have to have dealt with the bonus HP while spending your moves on healing. Negative to healing.

The fact that they have to give +50-60 HP to the opponents to make it seem like a fair fight shows how unbalanced the combat/encounters are.

Personally I think balancing the game around no region HP and most fighting going the full 8 rounds would make for easier balance between offense, defense, and healing. The rounds can end if all 3 players on 1 side get broken and the team with 1+ left just wins. When it goes to the full 8 rounds then each side gets a score based on the damage it dealt in total. This make healing viable as you need to be able to take 4 rounds of damage and still be standing. It makes offense viable, because as long as you can last 4 rounds of damage your offense is your score. Defense becomes more viable as it reduces your opponents score so you don't need as strong of an offense to win. This pretty much negates the first player advantage, unless characters get broken too quickly and gives a place for all 3 character types unlike now where its pretty much pure offense.
 

RickSo

Abbey Games Developer
Developer
Abbey Games Developer
Love the brainstorming going on in this thread. I really want the game to be less about doing big hits as quick as possible, and reward more interesting team compositions. Definitely taking all your suggestions to heart!
 

Yufgh

New member
We should add ambassadors to the list of op classes. Just finished my first playthrough as peace/lust. The peace revolution ability was doing 50+ damage to the enemy team and pretty much trivializes any encounter with an ancestral opponent.

For comparison the turn 0 dark aoe did about half of that to teams with a nature character. Not sure if this was due to knowledge being generally lower on my weavers but it felt more balanced for sure.

Admittedly, its less good on the divine island but still absurdly strong.

Spellsongs might also be too good as they have an excellent aoe (that I never saw miss) and +25% religion hp passive.
 

Blackvision

Active member
Kickstarter Backer Community Member for 2 years
Agree somewhat with Ambassadors, but I think some minor tweaks would fix the issues there - and frankly, at the moment, Peace needs everything it can get to keep up with War - and I'm OK with the Commandment specific classes being reasonably more powerful than the standard ones to keep the commandments unique in playstyle.

That said, Beasties and Songsmith's I'm absolutely agreeing are way too OP as they stand currently. Songsmiths would be ok if A) they did still miss like they used to :p and B) their damage was reduced a tiny bit. Only a tiny bit though - it's just that currently they hit for about 1/3 more than anyone else's attacks because they hit three people, even if it's for slightly less.

Beasties... are just a pain. Lots of other details on that though ;)
 
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