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Minor gripes and issues with 1.0.6 version

Wendek

Member
Hi,

First of all congratulations on the 1.0 launch! I'll post a wall of text (the last one, most likely) later (likely during next week) about the "bigger" stuff (new mechanics, game pace, balance, difficulty, etc. - spoiler alert I think the game's damn great) after a few more complete games but for now I wanted to talk about smaller issues that I have noticed in my two-three playthroughs of the current version sp far.
1) Minor miracles are back... and I wish they weren't. Especially since I haven't found any explanation in-game as to what causes a disciple to get a wondrous/minor miracle - it used to be linked to Faith but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore as I've had an Ecstatic level 1 recruit get a minor miracle as soon as they arrived despite the enthusiasm buff and the lack of any penalty (since their stats are too low for that). At least the effect is somewhat minor (unlike in the very early versions, where it basically told you to fire the disciple and hire a new one if it happened early) but it still feels awful to randomly get a permanent -10 Faith on a new, purple-totem disciple just because RNGesus decided to fuck with you that time. It's certainly not compensated by getting random 20 materials or offerings from wondrous miracles that you sometimes get.
2) Something similar about "negative consequences" from tenets - I think the UI is super unclear about those because the chance is rated as "rarely" for EVERY happiness tier, which doesn't make sense to me. I would expect bad consequences to be a lot more common at low tiers to incentivise players to keep happiness high (there's the endgame bonus but you won't know about it until you've won at least once) If the chance of a bad outcome is "rare" in both "Skeptic" and "Excited" but the chance of a good outcome goes from "Sometimes" to "Often", then what does it actually mean? Are there less overall consequences in "Skeptic"? I understand you don't want to put the real numbers there, but it's extremely frustrating when I get the drought twice in a row despite being "Excited" - it feels like I just took an objectively wrong choice with "God of Rain" because it just attracts bad consequences more often than good ones, and honestly the happiness seems completely irrelevant. When I sit at 2 happiness for several missions in a row, the tenet consequences don't seem any worse than when I'm at 16 happiness - it still just feels completely random, except some tenets (God of Rain, Stern Sermons) seem to give their bad consequence increasingly often as the game goes on and thus I feel like I should just always avoid them even if they make sense thematically (e.g. stern sermons for a Purity religion).
3) What the hell are the choices you get when you upgrade a ritual supposed to be? Most of them are absolutely nonsensical ("Teach skulls", "Punish sky", this sounds like something out of a Markov Chain) and the one you choose doesn't seem to change anything. If that's the case... why is there even a choice? If it's just there for flavor (and I struggle to see what flavor it's supposed to be except absurdity) then okay but I always feel very weird when I make a choice that doesn't actually do anything in a game.
4) I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed that some commandments still don't have their own "victory screen" at the end of the sacrament. Previously I chalked this up to early access priorities, but I didn't expect it to still be the case in 1.0. If you're not going to add them for resource/priority reasons, then perhaps just remove the ones that are already there? It just feels weird when War gets "Dominated" (which is fitting, obviously) but Madness and Purity (and everything that isn't War and Peace I suppose) get a basic "Victory" instead.
5) What is the difference between sending a disciple on their last pilgrimage and taking their soul? In both cases they're removed from the active roster, but the pilgrimage mentioning that they're "removed from the religion" makes it sound like an exile/banishment to me. So I've been taking souls every time because ironically it sounds like the nicer thing to do, but maybe I've just misunderstood this.
6) Minor bug: you can repeat the "Holy War" miracle endlessly (the Might + Health one) which doesn't seem intended. There may be others that I haven't seen yet - neither Holy Raid (second advanced miracle for War) nor the Purity miracles had the issue though.
 

AbbeyAdriaan

Abbey Games Developer
Developer
Abbey Games Developer
Hey Wendek, thanks for the feedback!
1) All minor miracles have temporary or small effects. the-10 is temporary. They're just there for the story and a little bit of wrenching.
2)There might be a bug or two in there, since what you exeprience shouldn't happen!
3) They're purely thematical, to see what ideas people have. To bad yours make so little sense, I'll see if I can improve that!
4) Fair!
5) The last pilgrimage is still there?! It houdln't :p
6) Thanks!
 

Wendek

Member
While I'm here, another small thing I just noticed: the description from the Temple of Commune (Generosity advanced miracle) says it'll increase Charisma and Devotion, but the actual miracle (Shared Spirit) increases Charisma and Health instead. Obviously one of those is wrong.
In addition, the "Transcendent <class>" Steam achievements are either bugged or have a very misleading description. Currently they trigger when you do 5 miracles with a Disciple, but that means they're actually level 6, not 5 since an Acolyte is already level 1. It also makes them incredibly grindy as I've had entire runs without a single Godly totem (or only on the last island, without enough time to level up 5 times before the end), although 1 is the norm.
 

Spariant4

Member
It also makes them incredibly grindy as I've had entire runs without a single Godly totem (or only on the last island, without enough time to level up 5 times before the end), although 1 is the norm.
I will second this. The totem roll policy is a little strange, you can get a pink totem on island 2 but going forward mostly green/1 pink even on island 5.
Make it so that at least 1 Gold totem always rolls by island 5? Otherwise end game is a real bummer!
 

Wendek

Member
Yeah agreed that it's very weird (and kinda game-warping if it's a particularly good totem) that you sometimes get purples on the second island. I think somethinglike this would make sense:
First island: mostly garbo totems with a small chance of having a 3-miracles common like right now
Second island: commons and greens
Third and fourth islands: greens and purples (more likely on 4th than on 3rd of course, maybe a very small Gold chance on the 4th like right now, although like an early purple it feels a bit game-warping and "RNGesus blesses this run")
Fifth and sixth islands: mostly purples with a good chance of golds, maybe a small chance of greens on the 5th but not as high as currently
I don't think Golds have to be guaranteed even on the last island since they're mostly a bonus, as long as they're not required for the aforementioned achievements. Because if they are required, then yeah we're gonna need at least one on the fifth island to make sure we can get those without spending an absurd amount of time on the game.

Speaking of totems though, I don't think you should ever get one with your commandment's two "bad" stats, especially with nothing else on it. One is good for variety and there are good reasons to use at least one of those stats (e.g. a Rage Prophet for Madness or a Songsmith for Peace) but not the two at the same time (e.g. Beastwalker for Peace). Getting a good totem with +Health and +Devotion as Madness just feels awful, it's RNGesus deciding to troll you with a great disciple that has absolutely no place in your current game. Yeah obviously you don't have to take the perfect choice every time, but having just your two lowest stats means it's gonna be a wasted disciple no matter its class. It's not the same as having, say +Knowledge and +Charisma which can still make for an okay Chieftain or Songsmith and doesn't have to be a Weaver.
 
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Spariant4

Member
Speaking of totems though, I don't think you should ever get one with your commandment's two "bad" stats, especially with nothing else on it.
I feel this is already solved by always having a commandment-specific totem every roll after island 1?
Strong-bodied and Strong-minded are good general categories, I think they work well from both use and fantasy perspectives.
 

Wendek

Member
I specifically wrote that after I got a Gold Phoenix Leviathan (+Health +Devotion, nothing else) as Madness. Obviously I couldn't take it (even as a Rage Prophet it would've been terrible) and had to take a purple, although it wasn't particularly amazing either. That was the only Gold I got through the whole run too, that's what feels really bad when your one Gold ends up having an essentially worthless totem that none of your 3 disciples should ever get because it has no place in your commandment. (that totem is honestly awful for almost everyone since the Ascetic is the only class that uses that combination, and having only two stats on a Gold totem, one of which is mostly irrelevant, is not a good deal compared to a half-decent purple)
 
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Spariant4

Member
Ah I see, a bad gold must be very disappointing !

Also interesting that the phoenix I got as Peace was charisma+devotion+knowledge.
So do these totems adapt to the commandment? Maybe the madness ones are not optimised, or the same as chastity.
As peace I also got a Quetzal once with amazing cunning (major charisma+devotion), you're right it wasn't ideal.

Regarding 2 stat totems, I also noticed they will sometimes change stats if you load the game before revealing new disciples. Specifically green Ibis will sometimes gget health in addition to devotion+knowledge.

it's maybe cheatsy, but a 2stat gold just sounds bad.
 
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Wendek

Member
Also interesting that the phoenix I got as Peace was charisma+devotion+knowledge.
No actually that's just my memory being terrible, I still have a save where I can get him (no amount of reloading changes it btw, I think only getting to the next island would do it except I have a disciple who dies of old age before that can happen) so I checked and it's actually the Leviathan, not the Phoenix. No idea why I thought it was that. Other disciples in that crop were Charisma/Devotion/Knowledge (not particularly great for a Might-focused Madness) and Might/Health, which is good for a Rage Prophet except I already had one with the exact same totem (Skullbird) and kept on going on islands with tons of Divine enemies. It's still the one I chose though, but he barely saw anyuse. Basically that was a pretty bad draw at the worst possible time, especially since getting a gold on the 4th island would usually be great as it means you'll have time to develop them fully until the end of the game.
 

Spariant4

Member
i get you. crappy situation.

is Leviathan a madness-specific totem then (3rd in order of reveal)?
Off the top of my head, would it work as a morale-tanking Harbinger?
 

Wendek

Member
I don't rate the Harbinger very highly in the first place (except in aesthetics), but I suppose it'd be serviceable as a Harbinger as long as you focused on its physical ability, which is the one that has the best Health scaling iirc. But noone ever wants their Gold disciple (most likely the only one of the playthrough) to be serviceable, you want them to be a powerhouse around which you can build your main team.
Honestly the Leviathan should just be locked to Purity or changed in some way as nobody else will ever be happy to see it in its current state. If a totem only has two stats, then you really want to make full use of both and the Ascetic is the only class who can do that for this totem. For anyone else, a purple disciple will always end up stronger and that's just sad.
 

sunilbhaiya72

New member
I don't think Golds have to be guaranteed even on the last island since they're mostly a bonus, as long as they're not required for the aforementioned achievements. Because if they are required, then yeah we're gonna need at least one on the fifth island to make sure we can get those without spending an absurd amount of time on the game. 9apps cartoonhd
 
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Spariant4

Member
You do indeed need 5 miracles for the achievements.
Also, I got the Leviathan too, it's clearly a totem for tanky characters. But then I got a goliath? (mammoth icon, Might+Health+Cunning) as a PEACE religion, and that was just terrible.
It could be that totems are dependent on the island- the mammoth dropped on the dark island5. Or maybe you just get unlucky if you get a strong bodied/minded totem that doesn't fit your stats. Gold in the third totem slot is best.
 
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