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Unordered thoughts on the current state of Godhood.

Alplod

New member
Community Member for 5 years
Firstly, I'd like to mention, that I missed the chance to follow the development of the game due to irl problems and stuff. Thus, the previous update I played was one that had only 3 virtues (war, peace and lust) and lots of things changed since then.

I do really enjoy the game even in its early state, I must say! This week I finished the game 5-6 times I believe, with each virtue (except chastity, but that's another story) and found out something new during each of them. Btw, the game is really stable, I had no issued playing on my not so new laptop whatsoever! Good job, guys!

I do really like how Disciples progression evolved since last time I played. Disciples get abilities randomly upgraded at level ups and also one can choose to get an ability point to choose an ability manually - a perfect balance of randomness vs control IMO. Getting rid of randomness of miracles is also a really good move, save/load hell is a thing of the past now. I think this part of the game is in an ideal state - however some of my following suggestions may shake this balance quite a bit, I'm afraid.

Religion progression tree is also an interesting inclusion. Shaping the details of your religion is an essential point of a religion-based game. However, I do not feel like it's really much more than a simple technology tree of a generic strategy game. "Cat worship" is funny when you think about it, but there's nothing in it but a buff to a certain stat of your Disciples. It should produce some kind of response in your Disciples and followers to be truly perceived as an important part of your religion. I believe, that events produced by some of religion upgrades have more "religious" feeling behind them, religion is not about stats or resources (I understand however the limitations of game mechanics), religion is about rituals, actions depending on ethical code and such.

That is the first issue I'd like to adress. The major point is - the religion actually doesn't matter much in the game. Team building is interesting - and I love the state of it, as I already mentioned. But how does the world change when you spread your religion? What about your Disciples? Not only Disciples, but other people who follow you?

I expect to have more than cosmetic changes when I choose one or another religion upgrade. I expect every one of them (or most of them) to matter on a larger scale. There's not much resources to speak of, but you can always include more events in order to allow the players to feel they have more than just faithful Disciples - they have their whole population of followers believing in them and trying to follow the only true path - the path of your religion of Madness, Peace, Chastity or something. And the followers need guidance. Your Disciples should not only be the ones that spread your religion - they should be your High Priests, the ones that inspire and guide the people you already converted.

Examples.

Chaotic followers demand the bloody sacrifice to honor the God of Madness. You may choose the Disciple to sacrifice to get some kind of major permanent buff to the others, choose one Disciple to mass sacrifice some of your followers (like -100, and the Disciple is busy for several turns) for a lesser buff or ignore the event and lose even more followers ( like -300) dissapointed in your religion.

Heated debates upgrade means they happen sometimes. At this time you may choose one of your more charismatic and/or devoted Disciples to participate for some number of turns. If the Disciple has enough charisma/devotion (or a secondary stat, btw. like defy chance) - he receives a buff to one/another. If not or you ignore the event - you lose some followers, cause during the debates some of them decided you (as a God) do not exist.

Lust is twofold. It gives power, but you cannot demand full obediance from a Disciple guided by lust. Sometimes your hedonistic Disciple may ask for a visit to Bordello where some of your followers wait for him. It would be free of charge, but would take more turns with a more powerful outcome than usual. If you decline, you'll lose some of his faith and some of your followers.

End of examples.

I think, it would be nice to find something happened in your city every time you return from the Sacrament, based on your choices of the religion upgrades. As you see, my examples always have the option to use the Disciple to take care of the event. This, of course, locks this Disciple during the event, thus, in order to balance this, some adjustments may be needed. Like larger roster, older age possible or both.

Of course, I don't insist on my exact proposal, but I want to stress the issue itself - religion does not matter if it doesn't affect its followers' behaviour in one way or another. And it should not be purely cosmetic, otherwise your choices do not matter still.



Some other short thoughts I'd like to mention.

1) OK, it's not an indirect control game in the city anymore. It's a full control one. And it's a no control game during the Sacrament. The transition is pretty weird. You directly control you Disciples in the city but you have absolutely no control over them during the Sacrament. That's illogical! Or not? If you, dear monks, have some explanation, I would really like to see it ingame. Like "the Gods have some rules to not influence anyone during a sacrament" or whatever. Anything.

2) I can't understand why in the world I would want to play chastity. I tried, I really tried, but I just feel its signature class and its buff lackluster. Is it supposed to work like outliving your opponent and using finale abilities? Is it supposed to work through counters? I couldn't make it work at all, anybody, help me...

3)War seems OP. The easiest playthrough I had. Can't analyse why, but probably due to physical AoE and immunity to Kind of its signature class. Or the event that gives loads of offerings out of nowhere. Or both.

4) The balance is out there. Most classes are usable, but those that have the ability to start with AoE are very-very OP. Actually, all classes that can use AoE seem to be better ones, but those that can start the Sacrament with it are from the different league.

5) And also, maybe it's just my problem, but customisation of Disciples' outlook seems out of place cause they are very short lived. For example, in X-com series I loved to customise my soldiers, imagine their stories, and after that I tried really hard not to lose my favourites, the ones I put my effort into. Here it doesn't matter, they all die anyway. I don't want to get connected to a person I lose soon :/

P.S. I'm really sad to hear you have some problems which enforce you to scope down, I sincerely hope you recover from this some day. And even more sincerely hope that you still have the resources to make Godhood into a game at least as awesome as Reus and RE:IS :)
 
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Wendek

Member
2) I can't understand why in the world I would want to play chastity. I tried, I really tried, but I just feel its signature class and its buff lackluster. Is it supposed to work like outliving your opponent and using finale abilities? Is it supposed to work through counters? I couldn't make it work at all, anybody, help me...
On the latest version I actually feel like Chastity is very good. You have the guaranteed heal which does not take up an action slot (unlike the Ambassador's Unity for instance) and is guaranteed to proc on the second turn after you've taken some damage, and even if the fights can take a while, your defenses eventually end up pretty high so you don't take that much damage throughout the entire fight. Since the commandment is pretty defense-oriented in general, you can get a lot of mileage out of classes like the Harbinger or the Smitesword whose defensive stats also improve damage.
I agree that War is very good, although a lot of it is due to the Executioner himself especially when comboed with the Chieftain (and even more when you add a Beastwalker as third, since the Executioner gets a free attack on first round thanks to the Chieftain, who himself gets a free attack thanks to the Beastwalker - obviously you always take the passive that gives you a free attack, I agree that it would be nice if some level-up choices were balanced to avoid these "no-brainer" situations)

For me, the weakest commandment is Peace by far. Lust and Madness are okay with ups and downs, but Peace is really weak. The Ambassador gets one heal (heals that take up a thought always feel terrible since you can't control their use, especially when your Prophet wastes his first turn on a heal instead of attacking in the early game when he's your main source of damage), one divine attack and one ancestral attack with an untyped basic attack so it's impossible to rely on any type advantage with it. On top of that, the commandment has a penalty to violent attacks but two of its six starting classes actually have a lot of those, so it has a much harder time on the first island than any other commandment and doesn't really get any benefit later to compensate.
 

AbbeyAdriaan

Abbey Games Developer
Developer
Abbey Games Developer
First, thanks a lot for the feedback and love! We're still working on a new update, which I think will push the game into good territories!

That is the first issue I'd like to adress. The major point is - the religion actually doesn't matter much in the game. Team building is interesting - and I love the state of it, as I already mentioned. But how does the world change when you spread your religion? What about your Disciples? Not only Disciples, but other people who follow you?
I think, in retrospect, this is THE problem that I had with designing Godhood. Making a religion is just... too big. There are so many tits and tats that are there: disciples, stories, people, myths, rituals, relics... And you want to give them all a place in the design! However, there is only so much we can actually do, and instead of choosing for 1 or 2 aspects of religion, we found ourselves trying to do everything.
In the future, I will try to focus on the thing that has the potential to actually make Godhood the best possible game. That is, focus on the team play/building and edge-of-your-seat Sacraments. Everything else is there to support the stories that come out of it. In the end there is only so many buffs you can give to a character before it becomes a muddied mess, so we're trying to clean that up as well. This will turn things a bit to highlight the strong points of the game instead of the weaker parts, like the economy. This will also mean that if there is more religious expression in the game, it would be as a consequence of the space you're already in instead of an action that requires gameplay changes to support it.

e.g. When you chose to Summon Abberations, sometimes something small happens that just does a minor thing, like eating up some villagers or giving a little strength to a disciple. It won't be anything major (the loop works well enough, and we don't want to inject a major dose of RNG in there), but it will give the right vibes, I think!

I hope we'll manage to make something like this!
 

Alplod

New member
Community Member for 5 years
Yeah, the vibes are just what I was talking about. You got it perfectly!

Looking forward to new updates ;)
 
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